Author: Asher, Odaily
Yesterday (December 23), as the creator of the Eliza framework and the founder of the ai16z DAO, Shaw attended a fan meetup in Shanghai and was interviewed by Odaily, sharing the latest developments of ai16z, degenai, the deep cooperation project ELIZA, and the impact of the AI sector on Web3 by 2025.
The following is the interview transcript
Odaily: You have been very popular in the Web3 field recently, which must have brought a lot of pressure. Can you share your personal experience and why you chose to step into the spotlight from an anonymous developer in the second half of this year?
Shaw:
I didn't intentionally want to step into the spotlight, and I never expected this to happen. It feels very strange because I was just a programmer before, and no one knew who I was. I was even anonymous at the time, but I gradually felt disconnected from the crowd, so I wanted to try to be myself and present myself authentically online. Then I released the Eliza framework, which unexpectedly became very popular and completely changed my life. I never anticipated these things happening. In fact, I wasn't even aware that the developer field also had a so-called "spotlight".
As for the pressure from the outside world, it does exist. I used to really enjoy promoting some other projects, simply because I personally thought those projects were great, and I wanted to share what I believed in. However, when the DAO started to become very large, everyone became particularly focused on token-related matters, which put a lot of internal pressure on me, and I could no longer freely talk about the projects I liked.
Odaily: The Eliza framework is now one of the most popular projects on GitHub. What makes it special?
Shaw:
I think there are three main reasons. First, it's ready-to-use. Currently, there are many tools related to AI agents and large language models (LLMs), and although they are all great toolkits, you still need to build the entire agent yourself. But with the Eliza framework we built, you can just start it up and it will run directly, as it includes everything you might need. At the same time, it also provides many plugins, such as the Solana plugin and the EVM plugin, which are all integrated.
Second, the core of an AI agent is around the network. I've noticed that many people limit AI to Python research and model development, but I think what's more important for an agent is to connect all these models to people through the internet. Therefore, we built it using TypeScript, and Web3 is particularly suitable for the JavaScript and TypeScript ecosystem, which allows many developers to start using it directly.
Third, we focus on the social loop. We have built connectors to social platforms like X, Discord, and Telegram, so developers can immediately run our tools and have their bots deployed to X without needing to write any code. Then they can add their own features on top of it, such as integrating EVM chains, and you can add a wallet to your agent with almost no code changes. Or if you have your own software and APIs, you can also call them through the agent. Starting from social media is key, and agents on social media can self-promote, letting more people know about their existence, and thus spreading quickly. I think this is the reason for its success: the agent can be easily deployed to X, and then everyone who sees it will want to have one, and then they can also quickly acquire and use it.
Odaily: Last week, ai16z not only launched on the Binance alpha channel, but also on the OKX contract trading platform. Do you have plans for further in-depth cooperation with mainstream exchanges?
Shaw:
Of course, we have other team members specifically responsible for these matters, and I think we may see more token listings and related progress after the New Year holiday, but I can't promise any specific timeline. I believe the listings on Binance and Coinbase are an inevitable trend, but I'm more focused on the content related to AI agents, so I can't make any guarantees or provide investment advice.
Odaily: What is the difference between ai16z and the previous DAO organizations in the Web3 field?
Shaw:
I think the core problem of the previous DAO organizations is that while the decentralized nature of the DAO has indeed been realized, the self-governance part has not been done well. It is not truly "self-governing", and still requires a lot of human communication and coordination. This has brought many problems, such as a small group of people holding all the power. Usually, some "whales" control all the voting rights; for newcomers, it is difficult to enter and participate, and to contribute to the DAO.
This short-sighted behavior has clearly exposed many coordination problems in the DAO. And we believe that this is where our technology can solve, allowing more people to truly participate and contribute, and providing rewards for their contributions. We are researching a "continuous retrospective fund allocation" mechanism. The idea is: if you contribute code to the codebase, or assist in the Discord working group, or provide help in any meaningful way, those contributors will receive rewards. And this is different from the traditional airdrop, it's more like a continuous way to reward contributors. We plan to execute this reward mechanism every month. Currently, we are working on developing the relevant functionality for this.
Odaily: So, do you think the ai16z DAO will have its own business model in the future? What is it?
Shaw:
Yes, our business model is based on the value accumulation of the token. At the same time, we are also making some investments, mainly investing in projects that we believe are very valuable, such as token launch platforms, DeFi platforms, and projects in the ecosystem that use AI agents.
We are not like a traditional startup with VC support, but we do have a relatively large funding pool, which was donated by a whale. We are using this funding to invest in the projects we think are important, and to get returns from them. We are also developing our own token launch platform, and are currently collaborating with the teams we have invested in, which is a bit like the Baidu Fund concept, and we are also working on deeper cooperation with Baidu Fund and some other projects.
Odaily: Last weekend, the ai16z Official Twitter mentioned that they will integrate their ecological token economic model, is it through staking, burning, etc. to increase the token value?
Shaw:
I think burning tokens is not an effective strategy to some extent. At least based on my experience, destroying tokens sometimes gives a sense of "selling", and this approach doesn't seem to really help the long-term value of the token. In fact, if I burn the tokens myself, it may cause some dissatisfaction, because people will feel that this will weaken their incentives. However, I think staking is very important. I believe any mechanism that can lock up tokens will be very popular. What we are really focused on right now is that our tokens face huge liquidity issues after listing. For example, we have a token with a market cap of $1 billion, but only $4 million in liquidity, which is clearly not enough.
Odaily: Regarding degenai, you previously said on the X platform that you will soon launch your AI agent. Can you reveal what kind of AI agent it will be? What are its core competencies?
Shaw:
Yes, degenai is about to debut, and it is the first character we are launching, and it will be launched with a built-in wallet. degenai can obtain trading signals through social media, we will track whether certain KOLs are truly sharing quality recommendations? If we follow the advice of these KOLs, can we profit? Or are they actually "harvesting the leeks"? The core of degenai is to establish a trust scoring system based on these data to make trading decisions. The ultimate goal of developing degenai is to make these tools not only serve us, but also be used by users in their own communities. For example, users can trade through this agent without having to manually perform complex trading operations on Phantom or DEX Screener.
At the same time, we are currently developing another character, and the two characters use the same technology, but with slightly different functions. Although some information has been released to the public, we are in the testing phase, and have only opened a very small range of Alpha chat groups, where invited users can share trading information.
Odaily: Regarding the ELIZA project that has a deep cooperation with a16z, you could have issued it yourself, but you handed it over to the AVA team. Do you think they are more professional and will make ELIZA better? How will you help the project in the future?
Shaw:
The AVA team has shown me an early version of the project. I thought it was cool at the time and was willing to work together to ensure the project truly reflects high-quality standards. In addition, they have some excellent developers on their team. Their vision is to build a platform that not only provides decentralized functionality, but also far exceeds the existing Eliza project in terms of user experience and functionality. They hope to redefine the positioning and application scenarios of the Eliza token, making it not just a token or AI project, but a comprehensive platform that encompasses a variety of tools, services, and ecosystems. The support for ELIZA includes:
Technical support: We will continue to provide support at the technical level, such as code review, optimization, and assistance in implementing the core functions of the project.
Resource integration: We will utilize our own ecosystem and resources to engage in deeper collaboration with them, including sharing market channels and industry networks.
Community promotion: We plan to use our own community resources to help them expand their user base and ensure that existing Eliza token users can smoothly migrate to the new platform or accept new features.
Financial support: If necessary, we will evaluate whether to support the long-term development of the project through direct investment or participation in the token economy.
We are very optimistic about their potential, and we also believe that this project meets market demand and user expectations. They have the ability to drive the development of Eliza in a more free and creative way, and the support we provide is to ensure that the project starts steadily, is consistent with our overall mission, and respects its independence.
Odaily: Whether in the Web2 or Web3 domain, everyone is optimistic about the AI sector in 2025. Do you think the performance of the AI sector in the Web3 domain will surpass the GameFi Summer and DeFi Summer in that year?
Shaw:
I think it's possible. Ultimately, it still depends on the performance of the global economy. If mainstream assets like Bitcoin continue to perform well, the market may continue to rise. In addition, I firmly believe that AI will fundamentally change the way the internet operates, and AI agents are just beginning. For example, when it comes to the X platform, I now see that most of the information I see seems to be AI-related content, and this change really feels crazy.
Odaily: Finally, what advice do you have for new users entering the Web3 AI field?
Shaw:
Do your own research. I see a lot of people losing money because they didn't do any reading or understanding at all. They just blindly followed the trend, and only started complaining when they lost money. For behaviors like PVP, the trend changes so quickly that just a few minutes can determine whether you make 1x, 10x, or lose all your money. This rapidly changing environment leads to a phenomenon of blind following. But those who really do a lot of research, understand all the projects, and figure out the differences between this project and that project, will have a much higher chance of choosing the right investment.
In addition, I think earning money is not just about buying a project, but also about doing liquidity mining. Buy top-performing tokens and put them into liquidity pools. Although you may not get a 10x return by missing the early opportunities, you will get a long-term stable return, which is the key.
