Editor | Wu Blockchain about Blockchain
This podcast interviewed James, founder and CEO of Jambo, who shared his background as a third-generation Chinese in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, the current status and challenges of the African cryptocurrency ecosystem, and how to combine technology and business resources to create the Jambo platform. Jambo focuses on providing mobile solutions for emerging markets, solving financial services problems for cross-border payments, remittances, and users without bank accounts through the "phone that pays you" brand strategy and blockchain technology. James also revealed the team's innovative initiatives in hardware, satellite networks, and user incentive mechanisms, with the goal of promoting the popularity of cryptocurrency in Latin America and Africa.
The audio transcript was generated by GPT, so there may be some errors. Please listen to the full podcast:
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Background on growing up in Africa and joining the crypto industry
Colin: James, welcome to our podcast. I have read some articles and introductions about you. Both your personal experience and your projects are very special and interesting in the Crypto industry.
First of all, could you please tell me about your background? Although you may have said it many times, I am very curious about how a Chinese family could have experienced three generations of inheritance in a place like Congo? Why did your ancestors go there and what kind of work did they do? I believe the audience will also be curious about this.
James: Thank you very much for Wu Blockchain about blockchain. I am James, the co-founder and CEO of Jambo. Sorry, my Chinese is not very good, and some professional terms may need to be expressed in English. I am Chinese, and my ancestral home is Ningbo, Zhejiang. My family has been in the Democratic Republic of the Congo for three generations. We first moved to the Congo because of the shipping trade between China and Africa. Since then, our family has lived and worked there. I lived in the Congo for 16 years and did not return to China until high school.
Perhaps my experience is not representative of all emerging markets. Africa has 54 countries with a population of over one billion. The Democratic Republic of the Congo, where I live, is one of the countries with a population of about 150 million, but it is also one of the most corrupt and dangerous countries in the world. Especially if you have a non-African face, such as white or non-African race, it is difficult to move freely on the street. You usually need to ride in a bulletproof car and have bodyguards, which is very common.
I lived in Congo for 16 years and then went to NYU to study computer science. Actually, my co-founder is my sister. She is a few years older than me and we grew up together in Africa. She is the only person from the 150 million people in Congo who was admitted to an Ivy League university and went to Columbia University. However, my mother thought it was unlikely that I would be the second one, so she suggested that I go to a good school in Hong Kong for two years of high school. I completed high school at the Hong Kong International School and then went to NYU. But I didn't end up going to Columbia University, but to NYU haha.
I graduated in 2017, just in time for the first wave of retail investment. After graduation, I entered the Crypto industry, founded a fund, and spent four years investing in seed rounds and other Crypto projects.
At the end of 2021, when I was about 26 years old, I decided to enter the Crypto industry full-time, mainly to solve some problems, such as cross-border payments, remittances, and serving the unbanked (banking the unbanked). In many African countries like where I lived as a child, and other emerging markets such as Latin America, there are no tools like Venmo or WeChat Pay, not even basic ways to transfer money. In Latin America, such as Brazil, there are systems similar to PIX, and they prefer to use Crypto for cross-border payments, including using Bitcoin as a "digital gold reserve" or using stablecoins to hedge against inflation. These experiences pushed me into this industry and later founded Jambo.
Colin: Did you enter the Crypto industry and invest directly after graduating from college? Or, how did you get in touch with Crypto?
James: I first came into contact with Bitcoin in 2015 when I was studying computer science, and then I learned about Ethereum. I bought a few coins at the time and saw their prices soar. Everyone was excited when they made money. At that time, there were about a dozen people in the course who were exposed to this technology together, and in the end only one person became a developer in this industry. Others may have learned about it in class, bought a few coins to try it out, and then did not go deeper.
I think my background growing up in Africa made me believe in this technology even more. When I was about to graduate in 2017, I had planned to start a business directly, but my sister convinced me. She was running a multifamily office at the time, which was also quite large. She said to me, "Come back and take a look at this opportunity first, it's huge." So I decided to join her team and set up a fund first.
Colin: Is it because you grew up in Africa that you are more interested in Crypto than your classmates?
James: Because Crypto bypasses the middlemen. In Africa, everything has to go through middlemen. For example, in the government system, power is concentrated in the hands of the president, vice president and 12 ministers. Each minister is in charge of a field of affairs. If you want to do anything in Africa, you need to have good relations with these middlemen. The situation in Africa and Latin America is very similar. Although the structures of each country are different, the core logic is the same. Everything needs to be done through a middleman.
When you see Crypto as a "decentralized" technology that allows money to flow freely, you will immediately realize its potential. This openness is clearly the direction of the future.
In Kenya, Africa, there is a very popular digital payment network called M-Pesa, which is similar to WeChat Pay and is used by almost everyone. It can be used to transfer money, which is very convenient, but it can only work within Kenya and cannot be used across borders to Congo or Nigeria. When Crypto appeared, I was immediately attracted. It provides a whole new possibility, which is why I am more interested.
Colin: So how is the application or penetration of the entire Crypto industry in Africa now? Including the use of stablecoins, such as USDT?
James: Globally, Kenya and Nigeria are among the countries with the largest P2P Bitcoin trading volume. Africa as a whole is 20 to 30 years behind Latin America. There is almost no clear licensing management system in Africa, and most operations are in a gray area. If you want to operate an exchange, about 95% to 99% of transactions are completed through P2P, that is, direct transfers of funds between people. Despite this, the trading volume in these regions is actually very large, and some local exchanges such as Yellow Card will also list trading pairs. However, in Jambo's market layout, Africa's overall development is still the most backward, so to speak.
In contrast, Latin America is our main market, with higher transaction volumes, and local people are more familiar with Crypto, and have formed their own communities. For example, we in the Crypto circle are used to using Telegram, but in Latin America, the community is mainly concentrated on WhatsApp. Language is also a major feature: Brazil mainly speaks Portuguese, while other Latin American countries generally use Spanish. Therefore, if you want to really enter the local market, you must not only introduce Crypto products to users, but also establish channels from Crypto to the real world.
This channel usually refers to deposits and withdrawals. Even if you give a person 10 bitcoins, if he doesn't know what bitcoin is and how to convert it into local currency, these bitcoins are useless to him. Therefore, building such a channel is an important problem we want to solve.
The opportunity to create Jambo and why payment is the breakthrough point
Colin: So what gave you the idea to do the Jambo project?
James: The reason I founded Jambo was because I discovered the problems in these emerging markets. For example, in Latin America, Southeast Asia, and Africa, almost all application scenarios are concentrated on mobile phones because these places skipped the PC era. Mobile phones naturally became our company's strategy to enter the market. Mobile phones are just one of our products, but they are an important tool for entering the market.
When I was a kid, for example, my family had to pay employees’ wages by the day or week, not by the month. Because many people can’t manage money effectively, if they are paid late, they are likely to run out of wages in a few days. In addition, foreign exchange transfers are also a problem. For example, if you are in the furniture industry, you need to pay your mahogany supplier. But banks have a daily limit on the flow of funds, and once it exceeds the limit, they cannot operate. The most liquid ones are churches because they control the flow of funds. These problems already exist at the government level. Crypto and Web3 technologies are not innovations that we promote in these places, but they have already started to use them spontaneously, such as the popularity of stablecoins.
What we do is to build a bridge or a platform. Through our mobile phone, or a "full-featured infrastructure", users can earn money while using it. Our slogan is "The phone that pays you".
As for why I chose payment as a breakthrough, I think it has something to do with analyzing my life experience and personal abilities. For example, if I were asked to do very low-level development or a completely on-chain protocol, that would not be my area of expertise. After discussing with my CTO and the team I wanted to form at the time, I found that the area I was best at and most interested in was payments.
I am particularly concerned about the adoption and application of payments worldwide. At that time, looking at the data, you will find that more than 95% of the world's stablecoin transactions are using TRX (Tron Chain). Although Solana now accounts for a part of it, Tron has almost no money for advertising because of its "first mover advantage". It can still attract a large number of users with low cost and ease of use, and the transaction volume is also very large. These success stories made me think, if Tron, as an Asian company, has not been stationed in Africa or Latin America for several years, but can gain this kind of market share, then will a more localized approach have greater potential?
Therefore, I think if I can achieve true localization, I can better enter these markets. In addition, as Chinese, we have a great advantage, that is the supply chain. If the supply chain is not done well, no matter who you are or what industry you have worked in for decades, it will be difficult for the project to succeed. China undoubtedly has a very big advantage in the supply chain.
Colin: So you just mentioned that your mobile phones are mainly aimed at third world countries, but not limited to Africa, right? Including Latin America and other regions. What is the current distribution of your users?
James: Yes, there have been some changes in this regard. To be honest, Jambo's initial brand positioning often emphasized Africa, because I grew up in Africa myself. However, at that time, we had not sold even one mobile phone. By 2024, we had sold about 700,000 mobile phones and created 5 million wallets, covering more than 100 countries. From these data, we can see that our community is growing very fast.
Because of this, I would say that the Latin American market is about 20 to 30 years ahead of Africa. Latin American users and communities are more receptive to Crypto, so most of our users are actually concentrated in Latin America. However, there are not many people in our team who can speak Portuguese or Spanish, and only a few people are responsible for market management in this area. I speak French myself, so I can help cover some markets in West Africa. This means that the team is very important in terms of localization capabilities.
I have been emphasizing the potential of emerging markets in this podcast. I believe that emerging markets are the only place that can bring the next billion users to Crypto. This is the core belief of our team's work every day. We wake up and go to sleep every day thinking about one word, that is, "distribution". How to improve our distribution network is our key task.
We have the platform and the capabilities, but if you simply compare the specs of our phones to other similar phones, our performance is absolutely not inferior. In fact, we make no money at all on our phones, not even a penny. This is because we want to distribute as many phones as possible. We put all the profit margin into the product cost, except for paying the necessary tariffs, shipping taxes and dealers' share, the rest is used to improve the performance of the phone.
For example, our phone is equipped with 12GB of memory and 128GB of storage space, which are comparable to higher-end phones. At the same time, our phone comes pre-installed with 20 software, including some games. For example, there is a Web3 first-person shooter (FPS) game called Matrix File. You can earn tokens by reaching a certain level in the game, and we provide smooth on-chain docking, low latency, and no lag, all running on our $99 phone.
How to win Paradigm and Coinbase investment?
Colin: When you were working on this project, I saw that you received investment from some top venture capital firms in the United States, such as Paradigm, which was their first African project, and Coinbase. What was the reason that attracted these top VCs? Is this also related to your sister's fundraising ability or social skills?
James: I think first of all, we were lucky. I went to school in the United States at the time, attended some industry conferences, and met some GPs (general partners) of investment institutions. But to be honest, this industry is actually very small, and everyone basically knows each other. But even if you have channels and connections, top investors will not give you a check just because of the relationship.
I think we were able to get investment at that time mainly because of the direction we entered and the data we had on emerging markets. Paradigm had never invested in similar projects before. At that time, our A round due diligence lasted for two months, especially the cooperation with Paradigm. In contrast, other investors were actually basically finalized in our round of financing. We completed the seed round of financing as early as the end of 2021. Coinbase was our first investor, and there were also institutions such as Tiger Fund. The A round was completed in 2022.
Paradigm's participation is very important to us. Normally, when you start a company, you focus on traditional business indicators such as revenue, profit margin, unit cost (COG), average revenue per user (ARPU), and you also need to take care of supply chain and sales. However, in the Web3 field, things are more complicated because you need to introduce a token system. You have to consider how future retail users view your community and their trust in your token economy.
I knew Paradigm’s reputation would send a signal that this company was credible and not just a few young people playing around. After all, few people in their twenties can start a hardware company, produce phones, and sell millions of them. It’s a huge risk, and there’s no blueprint or precedent to refer to. So we are very grateful to all the investors at that time.
Of course, my previous four years of experience in the fund industry, as well as the exchanges at various conferences and the industry connections I accumulated, did help.
Future focus: hardware sales, satellite connections, token economy
Colin: You have been advancing the project over the years, including the fact that you may soon conduct a TGE (token generation event). Do you have anything to share about the overall project planning for this year and the use scenarios of your tokens after they are released?
James: Last year, our goal was to exceed our expectations in terms of mobile phone sales. Starting with Jambo Phone 1 and then Jambo Phone 2, which was released in September, these achievements have laid a good foundation for us. This year, we have several main goals: First, we will significantly increase the sales of mobile phones. In the past, we were mainly consumer-oriented (ToC), but now, after long-term negotiations with some enterprises (such as telecommunications companies), cooperation has gradually been put in place. These partnerships may have been discussed for several months or even more than a year, so this year, our expansion in the B-end market will be a big focus.
Our token is the core circulation engine of the entire ecosystem. Almost all functions, such as deposits, withdrawals, exchange fees, platform fees, token burns, etc., are realized through our tokens. Our previous financing was also completed through tokens.
It can be said that all funds and resources will eventually flow into our Token economic system. In addition, we are planning to do a more interesting and large-scale project this year. I can also reveal in advance today: Jambo will launch its own satellite this year, called Jambo Satellite. This satellite will provide connection services for all our mobile phones.
The core of this project is to provide Internet connectivity to the entire world. Our satellites can bypass the traditional telecommunications service provider (Telco) layer and connect our mobile phones directly to the global computing resource network. This means that as long as users use our mobile phones, they can seamlessly access the computing power of the entire world.
The challenges and value of hardware entrepreneurship
Colin: I think this is pretty cool. Especially in the Crypto industry, it is rare to see projects that make hardware, mobile phones, or actually land some heavier products. Although there are some so-called DePIN (decentralized Internet of Things) projects, such as some similar projects in the United States, not many of them have developed particularly well. After all, in the Crypto industry, most people still prefer to do some "air" projects, such as meme coins or DeFi, which are more like nesting doll-style agreements. For new entrepreneurs like you, do you think it's too hard to make hardware?
James: Indeed, the challenges in this regard are very real, and I especially appreciate your recognition of the hardware field. The complexity of supply chain management and other aspects is well known to founders who have worked in hardware. This is not easy. But if we look at it from the perspective of value creation, what the Web3 industry discusses every day is how value flows, right? For example, the fact protocol thesis, or whether you are an L1 or L2. Is L2 important? Maybe it is important, but look at Uniswap, which eventually made its own Uni Chain and took its end users into its own hands.
Ultimately, you need to really own your users. This is what we want to do most. So, in order to build a complete ecosystem, we had to adopt this mobile-centric go-to-market strategy at the time.
If you look at where we are now, Jambo is probably one of the largest hardware networks in the crypto space, especially in the DePIN space. Through our phones, users can basically access about 38 million GB of storage capacity and more than 650,000 computing nodes. And by this year, the size of this network will increase several times.
From the perspective of network effects, when we plan for the next 5 to 10 years, our team's token unlocking schedule can illustrate the problem. Our plan is a long-term project of at least five years, which is a very long-term layout.
Will there be new hardware or blockchains introduced?
Colin: I have two more questions: First, will you launch other hardware in the future, such as watches, bracelets, rings and other related products? Second, will you develop your own blockchain, such as Layer 2?
James: This is a good question. Let's talk about Layer 2 first. We will not build our own blockchain. Our token is issued based on Solana's SPL standard. The reason is that our company's operating model and market are very unique. We sell mobile phones in more than 100 countries around the world, and we have observed that the communities in each region are already using certain specific Layer 1 chains.
Among the chains used and promoted by Web3 KOLs or Web2 KOLs in these regions, Solana almost occupies the main user awareness. Therefore, many functions integrated in our mobile phones, such as token issuance and user interaction, are based on SPL, Solana and our cooperation with USDT (Tether). SPL standard USDT is very important in the Solana ecosystem. I personally also admire Solana very much, and I have seen its development potential in the Breakpoint event before.
As for whether we will develop other hardware, I think our biggest goal this year is our satellite plan, which uses satellites to connect existing hardware devices. We will not start developing various wearable devices like bracelets, watches or rings like traditional hardware companies. Of course, if we have plans to launch similar products in the future, we will also release the news through official channels, such as Twitter, as soon as possible.
Currently, Satellite is our most important new project this year and it will become a key part of our technology ecosystem.
How to balance user incentives and abuse risks?
Colin: Are you worried that people buy your phones just to get tokens instead of actually using them? Can these current buyers really use your products smoothly?
James：We do have an Airdrop program, and in our Token economic model (Tokenomics), we have set up a special part to reward our early community and users. So far, we have sold more than 700,000 phones and have more than 200,000 very active wallet addresses. Judging from the data of the phone, these users have an average of more than five hours of daily active usage (DAU) and many on-chain transactions in their wallets. These active users are the core target group of our reward program.
Of course, anyone in this industry will worry about the problem of "Airdrop Farmers" who will use various methods to obtain more rewards. Compared with pure on-chain protocols, we have been able to achieve higher cyber resistance through hardware. One phone corresponds to one user, which allows us to avoid the problem of large-scale fake accounts, while on-chain protocols are often more susceptible to such abuse, such as a large number of virtual wallets or invalid accounts.
However, even so, we still look at some data in weekly team meetings. Sometimes we find that a single buyer has purchased more than 50 phones. For example, in Brazil, this may be for distribution to community members for real promotion and use; but in South Korea or other markets with large crypto transactions, such purchases may be for other purposes.
Colin: So, are you going to take some measures, such as preventing Sybil attacks or similar restrictions?
James: Yes, one mobile phone corresponds to one user, which has formed a high barrier in itself and played a certain role in resisting witch attacks. In addition, we have designed some other anti-attack mechanisms on the chain. On the mobile phone side, through data analysis and other criteria, we can basically judge the user's usage and formulate reward strategies accordingly.
Can Cryptocurrency Help Africa Develop?
Colin: Last question, there are many opinions that stablecoins or Crypto can help provide better financial services to those who do not have bank accounts in Africa. Do you think this view is valid? Can Crypto really help Africa develop?
James: I grew up in Africa, and although I haven't been to China much, I am still Chinese. Speaking of China, there are super apps such as WeChat and Alibaba on mobile phones, and we are very familiar with their operating modes. How did these super apps start? Starting from the instant messaging function of WeChat, by accumulating user data, and then gradually expanding to various complementary services. Now, you can use these apps to complete various operations from paying electricity bills, buying air tickets to loans, and behind these functions is a complete social credit system.
Applying this model to the global financial system is crucial to the development of Africa. Africa has 54 countries and 1.4 billion people, of which about 40% to 50% are unbanked. This is a very staggering number, and Africa is also the region with the youngest population in the world.
Even if you airdrop a digital wallet to every African tomorrow and open an account for them, it does not mean that they can really enter the financial system. The reason is that they have no credit record and lack their own credit system. In Africa, in many cases, a person's mobile phone number is equivalent to his identity domain name, but there is no universal KYC (know your customer) mechanism here, nor is there perfect data support.
A lot of Jambo’s work is aimed at solving these problems. When users register through our wallet, we are able to monitor and track their activities, collect relevant data, and provide more optimized services based on this data.
We pre-install 20 apps on the Jambo phone, and basically no more, because the number of apps that can be accommodated on the first page of a phone is limited. Jambo is essentially a multi-chain wallet and task platform. It tells users how to complete tasks and earn money through other applications. After users use our phones for more than a year, we can roughly understand their social behavior, activity areas, etc., so as to push more relevant services.
Therefore, Crypto can indeed play a role in “Banking the Unbanked”, especially in the field of Cross-Border Payments and Remittances. This is exactly what we are focusing on at Jambo.
