Original article by: Nancy, Joshua, Mario, Brad, Gregory Cote
Original translation: DeThings
Editor's note: On June 25, two days before the first presidential debate of 2024 and about two weeks before an assassination attempt, Bloomberg Businessweek interviewed former U.S. President Donald Trump at Mar-a-Lago in Palm Beach, Florida. In a discussion focused on business and the global economy, Trump talked about the Federal Reserve, inflation, tax cuts, tariffs, Taiwan and his relationship with CEOs. The interview was conducted by Bloomberg senior reporters Nancy Cook and Joshua Green, executive editor Mario Parker and Businessweek editor Brad Stone. The following is a transcript of the conversation, lightly edited for clarity and annotated by Gregory Cote for several fact checks. It is roughly divided into 22 questions.
1. Bloomberg Businessweek: Thank you for accepting our interview. First, I would like to ask a big question: What do you want the U.S. economy to look like from the perspective of innovation, opportunity, and global competitiveness?
TRUMP: I think manufacturing is a big thing, and everybody who runs for office says you're never going to have manufacturing again.
We have currency problems, you know. Currency. When I was president, I had a very intense battle with President Xi Jinping and Shinzo Abe, who is a remarkable man - in fact, you know the story.
So we have a serious currency problem because the currency depth right now, the strong dollar/weak yen, weak yuan, is tremendous. I used to fight them, you know, they always wanted the dollar to go down. They would object, and I said, if you go down any more, I'm going to have to put tariffs on you. They pulled all the stops with me, but I was very tough on it. Nobody talks about it now. And the differential is, you know, our differential is the largest in, I think they say 38 years. It's a huge burden on our companies trying to sell tractors and other products elsewhere abroad. It's a huge burden.
I remember one of the things I worked hardest on was keeping their currency strong because we didn't have the difference that we have now.
I think it won't be long before some really bad things come out. I've been talking to manufacturers and they're saying we can't buy, nobody wants to buy our products because the price is too high. Look at Komatsu and these tractor companies. They make good products, but you know - it's going to force Caterpillar and others to build, they already have a lot abroad, but it's going to force them to build in other countries, and that's what other countries want. And that's what we should want in a different way, we should want, we have to have, but I think you're going to see some really bad numbers in the next year. It's going to take a while to get there. But the gap between the dollar and the yen, the dollar and the yuan is really incredible. The dollar is high and they're low. I always notice that they do everything they can to keep their currency low.
It doesn't sound good, but that's how Japan is set up in terms of what they do and how they make products. That's how China is set up. I think we're in a very bad position.
Has President Biden done anything for the economy? Do you have any compliments for him?
TRUMP : Look, I would love to. I would love to meet him... But I just feel like everything he's doing is the opposite of what should be done. I'm not against electric cars -- electric cars. I think it's great. Elon Musk is great. I think it's great.
I drive them a lot, and they're great. But you can't have 100% of the cars electric. We can't electrify cities. We're so far behind in the basic technology that it's not going to work. These cars don't go far enough. They're very, very expensive. They're also very heavy. You know, they're much heavier. They want to move to electric trucks. If you do electric trucks, about twice, because I've run into a lot of them in the trucking industry. They weigh two and a half times as much as the same diesel truck. Who would have thought that? You have to rebuild the bridges and the infrastructure, and they can't handle the weight -- they're much heavier than a diesel or a gasoline, and the batteries and everything are much heavier. So, I mean, these are serious problems. You saw last week that they announced that they were going to spend $8 billion to open seven chargers. Seven. Seven chargers. Just like pumps at a gas station. They built seven chargers. They spent $8 billion, which is probably one percent or one thousandth of what you need.
I've seen reports that say if you're going to electrify this country, the country's going to have to go bankrupt. It's going to take $5 trillion to have the number of chargers that you need. These things aren't complicated, but they don't even want to talk about them, you know? They say the car companies -- keep making cars, we don't care, they want to have 50% of the electric car market by 2030, and way more than that -- 75% by 2032. 75%. It's not feasible. It's not sustainable -- and by the way, they're also giving massive subsidies that nobody actually knows about. But you're talking about trillions of dollars. We have hundreds of thousands of electric cars that we can't sell right now, and you don't hear the car companies complain. Normally, if a car doesn't sell, you know, it's front-page news in Business Week. Right? But they can't sell, and the car companies are happy. The level of subsidies they're getting is unprecedented.
2. I want to ask you about inflation. Inflation really hurts Biden politically. Partly because of the pandemic, partly because of his stimulus plan. What would you do differently?
So inflation is caused by energy. And what he did was he immediately started cutting my energy. We got it down to a level -- at some point, we got it down to $1.50. It was a little bit artificial because we had a pandemic, we had a lot of things that changed because of the pandemic. You have the pandemic period, and then you have the rest of the time. But we got it down to $1.87. We had very, very low prices and we were doing well and it wasn't in abnormal times.
When he came into office, he really started cutting prices. I mean, he got rid of Anwar. Reagan wanted him. Getting Anwar was his biggest dream. Because Anwar was probably the same size as Saudi Arabia in terms of capacity in Alaska.
He ended it all, and it was horrible that he did that. But Anwar and he basically let people know, regulations, rules, regulations, everything, so I cut more regulations than any president in history, and I got the biggest tax cuts -- more than any president, including Ronald Reagan, who was second. We got a huge tax cut and incentives, you know, a year of tax cuts. People, they loved it. We had it before the pandemic, and then we went back to where the stock market was actually higher.
When I handed over the presidency, the stock market was much higher than it had been before the pandemic, the Chinese virus, or Covid, whatever you want to call it, there were a lot of different names, but the stock market was 3% higher than it had been during that time, and it was a tough time, and nobody knew, nobody knew anything. What was going on? I always say I did a great job on this, but I never get credit for it. I get credit for the great economy. I get credit for what we did militarily, no war, nothing. Russia didn't take anything from us, but they took a lot from everybody else. That's probably something you want to discuss later. But you know, the whole Ukraine thing was horrible -- it was also caused by oil, because you know, when oil was at $100 a barrel instead of $40 a barrel, he could have started a war. At $40 a barrel, he would not have gone to war whether he listened to me or not. I don't care what caused it. Now we have a double inducement, very expensive oil. He's the only one who made money during the war, because he did make money. The numbers are staggering. To a large extent, the war drove up prices. So in one case, you want low energy prices, but in the other case, you want to end the war, but you can’t end the war at $100 because at $100, he doesn’t have much incentive to end the war. So we have a whole set of macro problems that are also micro problems, and they drill down into micro problems. Ultimately, the result is that the world is in chaos. We may end up with — I have to get that hat. Said to an aide who was sitting next to me, “Can you ask her to bring me that new hat?” This hat says, “Everything Trump says is right.”
3. Can I ask you one more question while we wait for the hat? As you know, the Federal Reserve controls interest rates. If you are re-elected, will you allow Jerome Powell to serve until 2028? (Powell's four-year term as chairman of the Federal Reserve Board will end in May 2026. His 14-year term on the Federal Reserve Board will end in January 2028.)
Yes, I would. There's a lot of misinformation about that. I've had arguments with him. But no, I would, I would hold him to the line, especially if I thought he was doing the right thing. Now, you have to keep interest rates where they are until the economy recovers, and then interest rates can go down. Inflation is the bane of a country. It's interesting. You've studied inflation more than I have, but I've studied a lot of inflation. Looking back at Germany, looking back at many countries, inflation will eventually destroy a country. So you know, you can't do it. They have a dream, they want to lower interest rates, but they're very hawkish right now. Now, I would have a plan to lower costs. Not necessarily interest rates. Costs. Because if you can lower costs, you can lower interest rates.
But right now, with interest rates so high, it's hard for them. I know they want to try to do it. Maybe they'll do it before the election, before November 5th, even though they know they shouldn't do it.
4. Sir, do you think they should postpone the rate cut? Do you think they should postpone the rate cut until after the election?
Unless they cut other costs comparable to interest, interest is a very big cost. So it's hard. But yes, there is: I have a plan to make up for that by cutting energy. Energy. We can cut energy substantially. You know, I always say we have more liquid gold under our feet, and that's true. We have more liquid gold than anybody else. If we can get energy -- energy is such a big cost, interest is such a big cost. But you know, interest is kind of self-defeating because we have to pay bonds. Bonds are just, it's eating us up, the interest payments. I used to say when we had bonds or things at 1% or less, I would say, "Can you imagine if we paid that?" You know, at 1%, it kind of worked.
Speaking of which, the gentleman on the cover - Trump is talking about a cover of the July 2024 issue of Businessweek, which features Bernard Arnault, chairman and CEO of LVMH Moët Hennessy Louis Vuitton SE, sitting on a coffee table nearby - is a remarkable guy and I guess a friend of mine, and I wonder if you've asked him that question?
TRUMP : I didn't. But he's a friend of mine. He's great. His son is great, too. But he bought Tiffany. I said, what's the interest rate? Oh, well, they actually paid me. So he was one of the few private individuals who was able to get Tiffany, and he bought Tiffany at the price that he paid. And then he renegotiated the price. But he said, well, I got a great deal. I mean, they loaned me the money, they actually paid me.
I'm going to get you guys a Coke. Will you guys come in? Who wants something to drink? Anybody? A little Coke? Coke and Diet Coke. One thing I will say about Diet Coke is, I never see a skinny person drinking Diet Coke. No, it's always Diet Coke. I say that kind of nicely. But people drink Diet Coke, I never see a skinny person drinking it. I never see it. These people come in and order regular Coke, and they're skinny. I don't know what's going on? So go ahead.
5. If you are re-elected, what would you do to get the Federal Reserve to lower interest rates more quickly?
Well, you have to reduce other costs and not suffer inflation. Inflation, it's really really really... (An aide pulls out a red MAGA hat) This is just, someone just sent this.
Q: Are you wearing that dress?
I'll start with this, someone just gave it to me. Did you see it, Jason (senior adviser Miller)? So I have to start wearing it. But you can do other things with interest rates. Now, one of the things that's happening is that the country is suffering a huge loss from the millions of immigrants that are pouring in, and there's so much more besides. This is a new phenomenon. I would say, you know, some people say 16 million, 17 million, some people say 9 million, 10 million. 9 million, 10 million is far from it. It could be more, it could be more than 17 million. It could be 20 million, but it will certainly be 20 million by the time this character, the worst president in the history of our country, takes office. He's destroying our country. By the time he's out, hopefully he's out. If he's not out, I think you can shut down Business Week because I think it's worthless. I think the whole country is going to go down the drain. You know, there's a theory that because we're doing well in the polls. It seems like when we're doing well in the polls, the market goes up.
Scott (Bessant, CEO of Key Square Capital Management LLC) They say the only reason the market is doing well is because I'm doing well in the polls and I'm going to be president. But a lot of people think that, including some of the best and most optimistic people, but nonetheless. I think interest rates are very low right now.
It's very difficult to get funding, you know, when our home loan rate was 2.6%, people bought a lot of houses. Now it's actually 9 or 10. But in reality, the number should be much higher than that because you can't get the money. So if you can't get the money, the number is higher than 9 or 10. This number is high - 9 or 10. It makes a big difference because people just - this is what's called the American dream. They want to be able to buy a house. But they can't afford a house.
6. President Biden has kept in place many of the tariffs you imposed on China. He has promoted American-made steel and invested billions to rebuild American manufacturing and energy. Do you intend to repeal the entire Inflation Reduction Act, or just certain parts of it?
First of all, he introduced the Inflation Reduction Act, which is a bad name. It increased inflation, not reduced inflation. They actually admitted, after they got the money, that they should not have gotten the money. I wasn’t there. They should not have gotten the money, they didn’t need the money. We needed the money that I got initially, or we wouldn’t have a country. We would have been in a depression the likes of which we’ve never seen except in 1929. It couldn’t have been worse than that. But if you don’t do that, then the Inflation Reduction Act – they named it that to get it passed. And then after they got the money, I think they actually renamed it, but it had nothing to do with reducing inflation. It had more to do with the Green New Scam, which is what it really is.
No, we have to get back to basics now. We need low-cost energy. The advantage we have over almost all countries, including very large countries, is that we have more energy than anybody. We have more real energy, energy that is usable. Wind power doesn't work. It's too expensive. If you look at a kilowatt-hour, you can measure it in different ways, you can measure it in any number of different ways, but you look at the cost of wind power versus the cost of natural gas, and natural gas is clean, and we have so much of it -- it escapes into the air. But if you look at the cost of wind power, it's too expensive. You look at the cost of solar. You look at some solar, I believe in solar, but it takes up too much space. It's completely erratic, you know, it only works in certain areas where the sun shines brightly and continuously. I've seen a solar zone that's huge. It's miles high, you know, they talk about the environment. This thing is several square miles, it's very large.
You say, is this a good thing?
You know what windmills are? I think they're very harmful. It always amazes me that people think they're green when it comes to energy. They like the wind, I think they like the wind because it sounds nice. But I see windmills - you go to California and other places where they've had windmills for a while. They don't last very long. You know people forget that you have to rebuild them all the time. It's not like you have it and it's good. They last eight or nine years. And windmills in the ocean are especially corroded by the sea. They're constantly replacing, you know, when you take them down, they repair them. The blades are made of carbon material, and they say they can't bury them from an environmental point of view. They don't know what to do with the blades. But you look at some places in California where they've had these things installed for a while, and then they put the new ones next to the old ones, and they're all different colors and shapes, and it looks absolutely like a garbage dump. It's horrible, and if you're facing a windmill or close to a windmill, your house is worth a lot less than it should be. But it's very unstable. We have to get back to the basics, we have to get back to square one, you know, Germany tried this. Germany used to do this, and now they are building hundreds of coal plants, and I think they are still building nuclear power. But we have to get back to reason.
7. So, Mr. President, will you repeal this bill? Ironically, some of the money went to red states.
You mean, dismantle something that's already been done? Like the wind?
In the inflation reduction bill.
The problem with wind energy is that it requires massive subsidies. When I was president, I had a big guy sitting next to me. We had 40 of the biggest businessmen in Europe. A gentleman next to me, his only business was energy and windmills and things like that. He said, “No, we’re getting out of the windmill business.” I’ll never forget it. He said, “I’m getting out of the windmill business because they require subsidies. You can’t build them without subsidies.” You see, if you look at New Jersey, they were going to build windmills, huge, and they kept giving more and more subsidies, but in the end they didn’t build them. The whole project was canceled, and it was a big deal, and it made the people of New Jersey very happy. It was a collaborative effort. But wind energy is incredibly expensive. It requires subsidies. This gentleman said, “I don’t ever want to be in any form of energy that requires subsidies.” He said wind energy requires massive subsidies.
8. Back to China, economists say that imposing tariffs of about 60% on China will completely end the US-China trade relationship. What does this mean for companies such as Nvidia, Qualcomm, and Apple that have supply chains in China?
You know, I was in a 50% tax rate, I had never heard of a 60% tax rate. Everybody said, look at the Smoot-Hawley Tariff, oh, look what happened. The Smoot-Hawley Tariff was enacted after the Great Depression started. So if you go back, I tell you to read William McKinley. William McKinley made this country rich. He's the most underrated president. His successors took the money. Roosevelt took the money and built parks and dams. But McKinley made the money, he was really the tariff king. And I'm not saying that based on anything I knew about him, even though I knew him in hindsight.
Tariffs do two things. Economically, tariffs are amazing. A lot of people will say, oh, that's terrible. And that's very dangerous when you say that, because you may have an opinion, and there are a lot of them. I can't believe that so many people who are against tariffs are actually smart people. It's good for two things: It's great from an economic perspective. And it's good for negotiations. I've had countries that may be very hostile to me come to me and say, "Sir, please stop the tariffs. Stop." They'll do anything. It has nothing to do with economics, they'll do - you know, we have other things besides economics, like let's not go to war. Or I don't want you to go to war somewhere else.
9. Will you give tariff exemptions to those companies that Mario mentioned, those large American companies that support our competitiveness and artificial intelligence, like you did with Apple?
Yes, I worked with Apple.
I tell you this: Tim Cook, I found him to be a very good businessman. Others would hire people, they would pay them millions of dollars, and have lobbyists and so forth to come and talk to me. Tim Cook, I didn’t know much about him. He would call me, you know he’s the chairman of Apple, “Can I come in and see you?” He’s the chairman of Apple. I’d say that’s pretty impressive. He came in — at least I don’t know what it is right now, but it’s the largest company. I said, “Yeah, come in.” He said to me, “I need help,” You have 25% and 50% tariffs on your products, depending on the category. He said, “That’s really going to hurt our business. It could destroy our business.” I said, “Why?” Because if you build a factory here, you don’t pay the tax. You see, that’s the third thing it does, it attracts people to build factories here. I can tell you, I could talk about this all day. It’s so stupid what we’re doing. You know, I don’t have a problem with China. I don’t have a problem with Russia. I don’t have a problem with anybody. Because we are, right now, a country with great economic power. We’re losing that power rapidly. Rapidly. We're also losing our standards -- you know, they're moving away from the dollar. Look, Iran has gone, Russia has gone, and Saudi Arabia is now saying they're going to go with China and us.
10. Will you defend Taiwan from a Chinese attack?
Look, a couple of things. Number one, Taiwan. I know them well and have great respect for them. They did take away about 100% of our chip business. I think Taiwan should pay for our defense. You know, we're no different than an insurance company. Taiwan gives us nothing. Taiwan is 9, 500 miles away from us. It's 68 miles from China. It's a small advantage, China has a huge land area, they can bomb it. They don't even need to - I mean, they can just fire artillery shells. Now they don't want to do that because they don't want to lose all those chip factories. You know, all those factories, they don't want to do that. But I will tell you, that's the apple of President Xi's eye, he was a good friend of mine before the pandemic, but I really, you know, I, I don't feel the same way. And Putin is the same way.
I get along very well with Putin, we have a great relationship. We have never been in danger of war. He would never enter Ukraine. I say, never enter Ukraine.
The price of oil. It's crazy. The price of oil is crazy, and it's always been the apple of his eye. Just like with China. It's the apple of China's eye. It's the apple of his eye. It's the apple of his eye. But the day I left, they sent 28 bombers straight into the top two, and they've been very aggressive ever since, and they've got their ships all over the place. I wouldn't feel so safe right now if I were them, but remember: Taiwan took our chip business, I mean, how stupid are we? They took all of our chip business. They're very rich. I think we're no different than an insurance policy. Why? Why would we do this?
11. While we are talking about the war between Russia and Ukraine…
(Interruption) I just think we have to be smart about it, but remember, it’s 9, 500 miles away. You have to double load on the plane to get them to come over, and when they come over, they have to leave. But it’s a very, very difficult thing to do. The problem is, in three and a half years, China has aligned itself with Russia, Iran, and North Korea. North Korea has a lot of nuclear weapons. I can tell you that. I don’t think it’s classified. They have a lot. The world is not the same as it was three and a half years ago. Three and a half years ago, we, you know, the worst thing we allowed was because Biden is a fool. He forced Russia and China to marry. They married. And then they took in their little cousin Iran, and then they took in North Korea. They don’t need anybody else. They don’t need anybody else.
It’s a very, very dangerous world. I’m actually very worried about the remaining five months. Yeah, I think you could be in World War III. This guy is extremely incompetent, his people are fascists, but they don’t know what they’re doing, so remember: I have no war, no peace, no problems. We have no wars. There are no other wars except ISIS. I took them out in a very short time. I was told it would take five years, it took me almost nothing, and we took them down. We got (Quds Force commander Qassem) Soleimani, we got (ISIS leader Abu Bakr) Baghdadi, and Russia didn’t take any land. You know, that’s an interesting stat. They say Obama did it, Bush did it, and they can go back further. Every president gave huge returns, which means they were able to take away, and I took nothing away.
Now people are going to write, Oh, Trump, Trump. But it is what it is. You know, it’s funny. I say it and I laugh, we’re doing great. Don’t take credit for it, but it’s OK, we’re doing great. All the other presidents were enjoying the world. Nobody was enjoying the world under me. Iran is bankrupt. You’re not going to have Israel. Iran has no money. They’re down to $300 million. I think they’re down to less than $300 million. If the election hadn’t been rigged, they would have made a deal in a week, and I would have made a deal, and the basic deal was not to have nuclear weapons. I would have made a great deal with them — no nuclear weapons.
But when I came into office, I saw what was happening, and they were on a path to a nuclear weapon. I ended the Iran nuclear deal, which was very important because it was the dumbest deal. The problem is Biden did nothing. I ended it. He did nothing. But we were supposed to have a deal. So they are bankrupt. They don’t have money to give to Hamas. They don’t have money to give to Hezbollah or any of the 28 so-called terrorist groups that they have.
They were all starving. When I left, there was a rumor that we hadn't had a terrorist attack in four years. I can't talk about it. Because I don't want to say there wasn't an attack and then there's an attack, right? That's not good. But we had no terrorist attacks during my tenure.
They took away almost 100% of our chip industry, and I commend them. That's because stupid people are running this country. We shouldn't let that happen. Now we give them billions of dollars to make new chips in our country, and then they will take that money as well, in other words, they will make it and then take it back to their country.
12. On Russia, as a businessman, you have talked about ending the war in Ukraine. Have you considered easing or lifting sanctions on Russia as part of the deal you talked about ending the war in Ukraine?
Yeah. So when we impose sanctions, we're forcing everybody away from us. So I don't like sanctions. I find sanctions work well on Iran, but I don't even need sanctions on Iran. I tell China, Russia is in the same situation. I tell China... I make people realize that I don't think China is a bad guy. But I make people realize that China has been robbing this country for 30 years under successive presidents, and I'm the only person who's made huge amounts of money, hundreds of billions of dollars, from China.
So much so that Biden, who is bought by China, can’t even remove the tariffs because there’s just too much money coming in. And this is just the beginning. This is just the beginning. But I tell people, China is hurting us. China built its military with the money that it took from the United States, right. So, I think Gordon Chang (conservative commentator and China hawk) said the other day that Trump is the only one who understands China, and he said something interesting. He said that when he started putting tariffs, this huge amount of money was cut, you know, we made huge amounts of money. I gave the farmers $28 billion. They got $28 billion because China took advantage of our farmers. I gave them the money. I won Iowa and other places because of that.
13. You promised at your recent meeting with Business Roundtable CEOs to reduce the corporate tax rate from 21% to 20%, just one percentage point, because…
(interruption) Because I like it simple. I prefer 20%. I prefer 15%, but I think that's going to be hard.
Well, my question is: Is that the limit? Is 20% the maximum tax cut you would support? Or, as president, would you push for a much larger tax cut?
A 15% tax rate gets us to the lowest level possible. You see, when I cut taxes, this place started to boom. You know better than I do that we get a lot more revenue with a much lower tax rate than we get with a much higher tax rate. Nobody believed that. Everybody thought, oh, well. That's not how it works. You know, we used to have a system where you could bring money back from overseas. Nobody could bring money back. You had to hire 15 different accounting firms to bring money back, and it was too complicated. And the tax rate was too high.
They’re not going to give up half of their money to send it back. Like Apple sent billions of dollars back to the United States and then started building. I said, “I’ll do something for you, but you have to build it in this country.” I want them to build it here. That’s another thing that tariffs do. If you put tariffs on companies, they’re going to build factories here because they don’t want to pay the tariffs. You know, a bad thing is happening. A very bad thing is happening in Mexico. China is building big car factories. They’re going to put the UAW out of business. They’re building factories in Mexico and making cars to sell in the United States, and what do we get out of that?
If they build a plant here, but our people are so stupid, in my time, that would not have happened, you know why? Why I stopped it, they all moved to Mexico. They build plants in Mexico, they don't pay taxes, and they sell in the United States. If I didn't stop it, you wouldn't even have a car industry.
Well, while we’re on the subject of CEOs, JPMorgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon’s name has emerged as a potential candidate for Treasury Secretary in a second Trump administration. Is he someone you’re considering?
First of all, I'll start with one thing, I had a meeting with them. First of all, I had a meeting with Congress, the Republican Congress. It was like a love fest, and then I met with them, and then I met with the United States Senate, all Republicans, 49 people. It was also a love fest, but my three best meetings were with the executives. One thing that the Biden disinformation people brought up was: Oh, he goes on and on, he blathers on. There's no blathering on. You can say, it's gibberish, but to get to the point, you have to, you know, it's a very complex topic that a lot of people, most people don't understand. But I'll just say, that was the best meeting. They loved it. They were very happy with it. I mean, for example, I cut the tax rate from 39% to 21%. What's not to like? And then I said, for simplicity's sake, I want to round it up to 20, I mean, believe it or not, that still makes sense, and it's still a lot of money.
But I would like to get it down to 15 if I could, because then our incentives would be at the absolute lowest level. But that meeting, we had 70 people there, CEOs, senior people, and it was a love party, and I'll tell you when I'm not loved, because I feel better than anybody. But it was a love party. Some people reported it, and it was so wrong. In fact, CNBC called me and apologized because they found out about it. But we had a great meeting, and Jamie Dimon was there. I have great respect for Jamie Dimon.
The top marginal corporate tax rate is 35% in 2018.
Trump's future Treasury Secretary?
I do think about him. He was in the meeting. Tim Cook was sitting next to him. You know, all of us were in the meeting.
14. Did they give you any special advice or requests during that meeting?
No, no, the only reason is, for some reason, the word “tariff,” I usually use the word “tax,” because the word “tariff” is a very complicated word for some people. I started by telling you about William McKinley. William McKinley was assassinated. As you probably know, they named Mount McKinley after him. And then they took the name off—which wasn’t very good because he made this country so rich. All he did was tariffs, we had no income tax. They had a tariff act, I think, 1887 or 1886… You’ll have to correct me, you know, whether it was 1887 or 1886. They had a big symposium where they brought in all the business leaders.
The only topic was what do we do with all the money? If you look at the statements, Steve (Trump was talking to adviser Stephen Miller who was present), if you can find some, I'm going to start using them in my speeches. But first the debate has to be considered. But he had said, we're not going to allow other countries to steal our wealth, to steal our jobs. If they want to come here, they can. We're going to welcome them with open arms, but they're going to have to pay for the privilege of stealing our jobs and our wealth. He made them pay, and all this money accumulated, and Roosevelt spent it. And Roosevelt got all the credit. I know where that's going.
That was the Tariff Act of 1890. McKinley was Speaker of the House in 1890. The Democrats reduced those tariffs in 1894, but McKinley essentially restored them in 1897 when he was president.
But most CEOs are not in favor of tariffs.
It's amazing. You know why? Because they don't want to build factories in the United States. They have factories in different countries. You see, China has been brilliant for many years. It took many years, but for many years China let stupid Americans build factories in China.
They do it by charging huge tariffs of 100%, 150-200%. Other countries do the same. Just a quick story: When I was at Harley-Davidson, I said, "How are you?" They were at the White House. I said, "Is everything going well for you?" They said, "Well, it's hard to do business in some places." I said, "You mean like India?" India is an amazing abuser. One of the best. One of the best.
clever.
I said, "Why? Let me guess: India imposes tariffs on you, right?" "Yes, sir - 200%." Because they said - how many motorcycles do you sell in India? He said basically none. I said, "Oh, I see, they impose tariffs on you, right? What is your tariff? 200%. Oh, I see. I guess, they want you to build a big factory in India so you don't have to pay the tariffs?" "How do you know that, sir?" I said, because I arranged it. They ended up building this big factory in India. They were making motorcycles all over the place. They ended up closing Milwaukee, you know, they closed a lot of factories. I'm not sure if they closed a lot, all of them. I said isn't that a shame? This is stupid. Do you understand? They imposed a huge tax. I can't get people to understand that. We had an idiot senator from Pennsylvania, Pat Toomey, who was a very stupid man. He said, "Well let me ask you." He left because I wouldn't give him my support, because if I didn't give them my support, they couldn't win, you know? Have you seen it?
Now even Bob Goode is gone. I mean, he was leading by 30 points. I supported a guy that no one had ever heard of, and he won the race. But at the end of the day, it all became unbelievable. You put tariffs on it, and now they're all building back in the United States. That's easy. But what they did was they got rich by putting huge tariffs on it, and the United States went to China to build factories. Now, they don't like the tariffs because they already have factories there.
Hello, Mr. Lembke. (Trump turns to club manager Bernd Lembke, who is walking across the room) Mr. Lembke, these are the people from Bloomberg Businessweek.
He and I have been together for over 20 years.
LEMBOCK : Very successful, he said, about revenue and then most importantly profit.
TRUMP : This is a great club. You have two things. You have the best house and the best location, and we have the best manager, right?
Lombok : Yes, we have been together for over 28 years.
Here is a conversation between Lembke and Trump:
TRUMP: He's been a manager for 28 years, it's hard to believe, I opened this club...
LEMBCKE: In two years, the club will be turning 30, and Mar-a-Lago will be turning 100. We have to celebrate next year.
TRUMP: When I started, membership was $25,000. How much do they cost to join now?
LEMBCKE: $700,000.
TRUMP: How high will it be on October 1st? Or something like that.
LEMBCKE: In October, we're going to go up to $1 million [per member], because we have four members to sell, so we're not in a rush to sell.
TRUMP: But we have to talk big. It's not bad right now, but we have to think about the macro. Thank you, Bernd. Thank you.
15. The last question is about CEOs. The New York Times just published an article saying that no Fortune 100 CEO supports you. Why do you think this is?
Well, it's a fake article. One, I'm not asking for their support, and two, they're all calling, they all want to support me. If you understand politics, whoever's in charge gets all the support they want. Even though I had a shrimpy personality, everybody came. Everybody in the room. I scheduled the meeting... It was hard in a way. They all wanted the meeting. But there were a lot of people who supported me. If you look at the list now, a lot of people they don't know because they put them in a PAC that you don't know.
I mean, you really don’t know. And it’s hard to find out. People don’t find out, which is amazing. But you know, they have a PAC, and you can give somebody $100 million or $50 million. But our support for businesses is tremendous. But there are two things, I don’t seek. I don’t care. One, if I seek help, it means you’re doing them a favor. I don’t want to do that. Because I want to do… I got pipelines and big facilities approved. The LNG plants in Louisiana. I could have gone to those plants and said, hey, I’ll get it approved, la la la. I don’t do that. I got it approved. I don’t know who owns it, and I don’t care. Two years later, people will come to me. “I own the company that built that pipeline, sir, and you approved it.” That’s great, we’re going, you know. Remember the Dakota Access Pipeline? I approved it. I didn’t call the company and say, hey, I’m going to do the biggest one for you. They built everything except, it couldn’t connect 100 yards because of the river, the Indian River. I approved it.
So if we understand what you mean, then the support is private?
It's not about me. Right now I'm ahead in the polls, if you look at Rasmussen, I'm ahead by 10 points, which is a lot. The best poll is Rasmussen, do you guys do any polls? Yeah, a little bit, right?
Yes, we do swing state polls.
How did I do in your polls?
Normally, you're always ahead, but by a few points. You know, the gap is still pretty big.
Jason Miller : You like them now.
TRUMP : Actually, I think the polls show that we're much higher than average. Rasmussen has us at 10. 9, and if you add Kennedy and these people, I think it's 10, I actually put it a little bit higher. It looks more average, but if they all ran, we'd be up a little bit. I think that's about right. You know, I'm not sure that's right. He's close. Cornel West is not close - Cornel West and Jill Stein, I like them as politicians. They're my favorite politicians.
In some speeches, you vowed "revenge" against Democrats and government officials who you believed had wronged you.
Did I swear?
Bloomberg Businessweek Staff: Yes.
when did it happen?
I believe in rallies and speeches.
I don't know if I swore that.
We'll double check. But you also attacked the company --
I actually swore to get my comeuppance - what I actually said was "success is my comeuppance."
16. My question is, you have also attacked companies like Amazon and its CEO Jeff Bezos. I wonder if the desire for revenge also extends to companies and executives?
I think the Washington Post was really unfair. I attack the Washington Post a lot. It obviously had an impact. They lost half their readers. But I think, you know, I think he did himself a great disservice. So I think the Washington Post was really unfair, you know, it was terrible. Now, he's a very wealthy man, but nobody wants to lose $150 million a year, which is a real loss. 2 Losing that much money, you know, and making enemies because you're going to…
I think The Washington Post had a chance to do something great, but they turned into a poorly run political machine that could be shut down. Even rich people wouldn't spend that much to keep it running. But no, I'm not going to retaliate against anyone.
Sir, let's discuss some technical issues. I am from Silicon Valley and have been reporting on technology news for many years.
You saw my little - I heard that podcast is doing phenomenal.
All-In Podcast. Yes, I have.
This seems to be a big deal. Did you hear that?
Panel: Yes.
We all listened.
So let's start with Big Tech. Your first administration brought some of the first lawsuits against companies like Facebook and Google. The Biden administration could be more aggressive. You know, the FTC chairman is unpopular. So is the Justice Department's competition committee in Silicon Valley. Will you continue to expand and go after Big Tech? Do you think these companies are too powerful?
I think they have a huge negative impact on young people. I think they've become too big and too powerful. They control our elections. You saw what happened in the election, they control our elections. We can't have that. I have a lot of respect for them. You know, if you look at it, TikTok is very powerful.
Mario was on the plane when you said TikTok should be banned. What prompted your change of heart?
Well, I didn't say it should be banned. I just said, I'm going to give you a choice. You tell me what you want to do - go to Congress. Remember?
Forced sales...
They can't get their act together.
I said, "I'm going to do it anyway." But now that I think about it, I supported TikTok because you need competition. If you don't have TikTok, you still have Facebook and Instagram, and there was Zuckerberg - he would come to the White House all the time and be very nice to me. But then he took away my big - you know, he would come and say you have more "followers." Congratulations, you're No. 1. And I was. I was No. 1. And I think with Instagram, when you add all that up, all of a sudden I went from No. 1 to No. 1. In fact, I did old-fashioned press releases, and they were popular. They were real press releases. And then I did Truth (Social, Trump's social media company), and it really became very powerful. You know, I don't use anything else.
OK, so you changed your mind about TikTok. But I think I interrupted your first answer about whether you would pursue a tough antitrust agenda against big tech companies.
It's a very complicated situation. At some point, you want to be strong because you don't want other countries to have that power. All I care about is this country. I'm America First. All I care about is this country. So I don't want to hurt those companies. But I also don't want them to destroy our young people. You know when you see what they're doing. Including suicides - you know, a lot of bad things come with it. But basically, there are going to be big companies, and I want our companies to be big and powerful.
If you go after them very violently, you can destroy them. I don't want to destroy them. I want them to thrive. But I don't want them to influence elections. I don't want them to destroy children when there are child suicides across the country, which is happening all the time. So, there's a line. But no, I want our tech companies to thrive.
My uncle is at MIT. I love technology. You know, my uncle is, I believe, the longest-tenured professor in the history of MIT. You know?
I think it was 41 years. Actually, MIT sent someone over to show me a book about my uncle, Dr. John Trump. Yeah, he was a pretty good student, so to speak. My dad used to complain about it. He said, “I gotta get your uncle through school!” My dad was a little older. He said, “He’s been working on getting another degree!” But he was really smart, like, top notch. When he graduated from MIT—with a lot of degrees—they said, “Why don’t you stay and be a professor?” He was there for 41 years. But they sent me a book about my uncle, who was a legend at MIT. So I love this stuff.
I would like to ask a question about cryptocurrency? (interrupted)
Jason Miller : Brad, you know, we still have 50 minutes left. So we still have time for one or two more questions.
Trump : No, give him some time.
Thank you President Trump
TRUMP : And then when I get killed, and I definitely will be killed, and when I get killed, I'm going to blame Jason.
MILLER : Perfect.
TRUMP : But he's great.
Cryptocurrency - I remember you saying that cryptocurrencies are a "fraud" and "a disaster waiting to happen." Which, by the way, you're right. Both the disaster and the fraud have happened before.
TRUMP : I was always right.
But recently, you've started embracing the community. You said it should be made in America. So tell me why you changed your mind.
Because the answers are very similar. If we don’t do this, China will take it, China will own it — or somebody else, but most likely China. China is very interested in this. And, it’s not going away. It’s amazing. I met a lot of people — like at the San Francisco meeting — Trump’s June 6 fundraiser. I went to San Francisco and met a lot of people — these are the people who really think this is becoming an industry.
Now, if I put it aside, it will be accepted by another country, most likely China - they are quite advanced in this field. So you have to look at it - what I want, again, is what is good for the country. If we don't do this... Another thing is, I did something like NFT. I noticed that 80% of the money was paid in cryptocurrency. It was incredible. So, NFT was very successful. We had a year to sell it, but it sold out in one day. Sold out everything: 45,000 cards. I did it three times, and I'm going to do it again because people want me to do it again. The spirit is incredible. It's beautiful. But what I really noticed is that all the payments were made - I would say almost all of them were made in cryptocurrency, in this new currency.
It was an eye-opener for me. So we have a great foundation. It's still a baby. It's still in its infancy right now. But I don't want to be responsible for letting another country take over this space. So I think we're going to do well. Also, I've gotten to know the people in the industry, and they're all first-rate people. If you ask Jamie Dimon, Jamie Dimon used to be very negative, and now all of a sudden he's changed his tune a little bit.
I want to ask you about the EU and tariffs. Repeat the EU and tariffs - the idea of a 10% minimum tariff worldwide.
They treated us very badly.
Do you mean the 10% they charge us?
No, you just said that you charge 10% to other countries, the world --
Because they charge us much more than 10%.
So - you've talked about using tariffs as a negotiating tool - would you give certain countries a "friends and family discount"?
Sure, the European Union sounds lovely. It's a wonderful group. A lot of us are from there. You know, we love Scotland and Germany. We love all these places. But once you get past that, they get pretty rough with us. They don't take our cars. We take millions of their cars. They don't take our agricultural products. Very little. We take their agricultural products. They take almost nothing. We have a trade deficit with them that's well over $200 billion.
Now with China, when I was there, when I first came, the deficit was close to $600 billion. If there hadn't been COVID, I would have had it down to zero by the end of my first term. We would have been net neutral with China. But COVID came and we had to, we had to save the country. We also had to buy things from China because, you know, they make everything that we don't have. Our cupboards were bare. But no, I think the European Union is brutal, and so are other countries. Japan is brutal. I made a new deal with Shinzo Abe. If I didn't like Abe so much, I think he's great. It's so sad what happened to him. He's a very good friend of mine. But we renegotiated the trade deal with Abe. But Japan was brutal to us and it still is.
You know, we charge, so they bring cars in by the millions. How many cars do you see coming into Japan? I said, "Shinzo Abe, I don't see a Chevrolet here. I don't see a Chevrolet. Where is the Chevrolet?" But I see a lot of Toyotas and various other brands. Same thing in Germany. I said to Angela Merkel, "Angela, how many Fords or Chevrolets are there in the center of Munich right now?"
(Trump imitates German accent) "Oh, I don't believe a lot of it."
How many Mercedes, BMWs and Volkswagens do we have?
No, they treated us badly, but I’m changing all that and that culture, I’m changing it.
But the EU - you know, nobody thinks that. It's like China. When I first started going there - I love China - they were saying all the right things. I made people realize that. I have great respect for China. I have great respect for President Xi Jinping. I know him well. I like him a lot. He's a strong man, but I like him a lot. I wish he would write about it, to be honest, because, you know, people don't know. He probably doesn't know either. But I do. I respect him.
But no one knows how badly they (Europe) took advantage of us. We built their military with the money they took from us. Everything is changing. It's changing very quickly. Amazingly, this guy who was against tariffs came to power and he basically eliminated most of the tariffs that I put in place.
You know why? Because the money is so amazing, they can't imagine how things would work without it.
17. Mr. President, you have been particularly active in this election cycle in seeking the support of black voters and promoting economic policies. What economic initiatives are you considering specifically for black and minority voters?
Greatest move? OK, I did criminal justice reform, which was great. They were very aware of that. I did Opportunity Zones, which I believe is the most successful economic development program ever — primarily for black people, but for everybody else as well. It’s never been written about. Nobody wants to talk about it because it was successful. “It failed,” that’s how they talk about it. That was done with Tim Scott, who’s a senator from South Carolina, a great guy.
I saved historically black colleges and universities. They were completely bankrupt. I secured long-term financing for them, and now they're in great shape. Those people love me. I did a lot for these people -- and that's economic development.
But I'm going to take the most important thing. You can combine those three elements with a lot of other elements. Criminal justice reform, by the way, is a big thing. They've been pursuing this for 40 years. People get treated -- and it works there. You know, it's incarceration. And the people who benefit from it are 90% black. I think that's one of the reasons why I've been successful.
You know, when I was in Georgia, you see this girl - beautiful black girl, we walked into a restaurant and for security reasons, we couldn't say ahead of time that we were going. In other words, no one knew. I opened the door, walked in, and there were 45 people working there, all black. It was a fast food restaurant. This black girl was smart, beautiful, "Donald Trump, I love you! I love you!" She didn't know I was coming. You even saw her on TV. We asked her now, will you come - because she is so real. She is incredible. "I love you. You saved me. My college was going to close" - she went to a college that I saved when I was raising money because they were all closing down. All these college and university leaders were almost leaving. I saved these photos.
Anyway, she said, "You saved me! You saved me!" She loved that college. She went to a college in Atlanta that I had never heard of. She loved that college. I said, "Did you love that college?" She said, "It's the greatest college." I mean, it was really nice to see that college because frankly, I was a little surprised. It was really nice to see that college. But she had such a personality. She hugged me, kissed me, everything. I said, "I hope you can capture it, camera!"
To be fair, I did say that. But people can see that. But I'm going to do my best because the black people are going to be hit hard by the millions of immigrants that are coming to America. There will never be a hard hit like this, and they're already feeling it. Their wages have gone down dramatically. Their jobs have been taken away by immigrants that are coming here illegally.
I said: Blacks are number one, Hispanics are number two. You know who else? The unions. The unions are being devastated. They're letting those people - you know, you see. A person can be loyal to a union, because I had a union in New York. I got along well with them. I dealt with the Teamsters, I got along well with them. But you know, it gets to a point where you're willing to pay more. And then all of a sudden, now you're paying three, four, five, six times as much. You know, you can find some people who run the building, you can hire them at 20%, 15% commission. The unions don't stand a chance. Biden did it. Biden did it. But worse than anybody else, the black population in this country is going to die because of what's happened, what's going to happen to their jobs - their jobs, their housing, everything! They've taken everything away. Did you see that the people that Biden hired are 100% black? I mean, 100% are immigrants, and black people are being affected by it by far the most. Almost - not 100%, but almost, but definitely the most. I want to stop that. It's the best thing 6.
Somebody asked me this the other day. They said, "What would you do for black people?" I said, "I would stop 20 million people from coming into this country and they're making a third of what they're making now." They're all out of jobs. It's not a big deal yet, but it will be. Does that make sense to you?
This is a horrible thing, and they are affected more than anyone. They know I don’t want this to happen. They know because many of them have lost their jobs. They know I don’t want this to happen, and Biden does want this to happen.
18. On immigration, there is a shortage of workers in the U.S. Given that you want to limit immigration, how will you ensure that there are enough workers on farms, poultry plants, and construction sites to do the jobs that Americans are often unwilling to do?
Because I want them to come in. I want a lot of people to come in, but they have to come in legally. I don’t want them to come from prisons. I don’t want them to come from mental hospitals and lunatic asylums. You know, you’ve heard me speak, so I don’t think I have to do this – but Venezuela has a crime rate that’s a fraction of what they take – that’s true of almost all countries unless they’re run by stupid people. If you look at Honduras and all these places, they take all the criminals and throw them into the country. The criminals are all around you. It’s a huge problem. Venezuela has crime, and I said to business leaders, “Next year, if you don’t mind, we’re going to go to Venezuela for a conference, a roundtable.” Oh, why? Because there’s no crime there. Because they send all the criminals to our country. So we’re going to – I highly recommend the Venezuela roundtable.
19. I wanted to ask you about the housing market because housing is a huge expense for people. Mortgage rates are so high and there is a big supply problem right now. What plans do you have to make housing more affordable for people?
That's a really good question. Today, in some areas, like, a lot of crazy places, 50% of the cost of housing is environmental costs, bookkeeping costs, and all these restrictions. Building permits. Huge "restriction" 1. In addition, they require you to build homes that are not as good quality and are much more expensive. They require you to use materials that are much worse than other materials. And other materials, I mean, you're talking about cutting your permits in half. Your permits, your permit process. Your zoning, I went through years of zoning. Zoning is like... it's brutal. But we'll do it, and we'll lower housing prices.
The big problem with housing right now is your interest rate goes from 2.5% to 10%. You can't get the money. So, you know, I don't know if you can stay at 10, because if you can't get the money, that means the interest rate is going to be higher. But people can't get financing to buy houses.
I’m curious, when was the last time you spoke to Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed (I have to pronounce his name) – Mohammed bin Salman Al Saud?
It's been a long time, but I have a great relationship. You know, I did something that wasn't publicized, but it was a great thing. My first stop was Saudi Arabia.
This is very different because in almost all cases you (the president of the United States) go to England. I was ready to go to England. Muhammad called me and said, "I would love for you to come here."
I said, "If I do that, I'll be breaking a very long tradition." I stopped talking. He said, "No, we want you to come first." Because I know him well, he's a great guy. I think he's doing a great job. He said, "I want you to come."
I said, "Listen, this is what I'm going to do. I'll come. But I want you to give $450 billion to American corporations." Do you remember this?
Yes.
$450 billion. He said, "Well, never thought of that." And I said, "I'll go with the companies." And I did. He gave $450 billion. I've never seen anything like it because I was sitting there when the money was sent out.
They negotiated for weeks because I agreed to go in three months. I sat there and I looked at Raytheon and all these companies - they called the chairman of Raytheon. In all cases, it was the chairman or the president - whoever was the owner of the company - and they would sit in this incredible ballroom with a ceiling that looked like this [Trump points to the gilded ceiling] - actually, this one looked better. Whatever. But this very large ballroom. I think you covered it. I think you wrote about it.
Yes, there were a lot of journalists there.
I got very little coverage in terms of media coverage, but it was a phenomenal event. In the space of three hours, they handed out $450 billion worth of contracts, including Wall Street money. They gave that money to different Wall Street firms. It was a great event.
How do you navigate…
It should be reported. Don’t you think so? I mean, $450 billion. They went to Boeing and bought airplanes, bought hundreds of airplanes, bought jet fighters, everything. Go ahead.
I just wanted to ask you, given that they want to dominate the energy sector, but you really want to open up more energy exploration in the United States, how would you approach that relationship?
He likes me and I like him. They always need protection. They don't - they're not naturally protected. They always need protection and I will always protect them. I have a good relationship with him.
Have you spoken to him in the past six months?
Yes. A little bit. I have a good relationship with him. He came to this country.
How often do you talk to him?
His uncle was supposed to come. But he came, as the son - and very young. I think he was about 32 years old. We hit it off, and we felt very - I said to his father, "You know, you know there's a great man here who's going to rule this kingdom one day." He impressed us. Very, very strong, good-looking, loved his country, had great feelings about America. I'll call the king -
You know, when I flew to Saudi Arabia, the king met me on the runway, and it was 120 degrees. He said - so I can't imagine that he never greeted Obama, never greeted anybody. They brought him to Obama and said he shook his hand and that was the end of it. He was standing on the runway waiting for me - it was 120 degrees - and they told me, "Sir, we don't know, but we can't imagine that he would be there because it was so hot, you know, a record 120 degrees1..." Even for Saudi Arabia, that's a lot. He greeted me, and he was great. You can't put him in a movie. Nobody could play his role. Great guy.
Same thing with Mohammed, he's now the crown prince, now the prime minister, now he's going to be the king. He's going to be a great king. So I like him very much.
So they, they live in a very difficult situation. But Obama, Obama hurt us, Bide
