Before the MOVE to NCCU event, ABMedia interviewed Movement co-founder Cooper Scanlon. In addition to the entrepreneurial stories of Cooper and Movement Labs, we also exclusively share the progress of the Movement private network, corporate culture, and Rushi’s exclusive alpha at the Crypto Tsar Dinner.

( The co-founder of Movement will meet with the Taiwanese community on March 19 and 20! The event will exclusively share Web3 entrepreneurial experience )

The founder, who did not have a proud background, dropped out of school to develop the MOVE language

NEO: Could you please introduce yourself first? About your background, etc.

Cooper: I grew up in a very rural community where there weren’t a lot of opportunities and there weren’t a lot of career options around. So in high school, I worked full time to support myself and my family. I went to Vanderbilt hoping that going to a good school would lead to a good job, a good career, and financial freedom and independence.

When I got to Vanderbilt, I started studying a few different things, like human and organizational development, which is kind of like business psychology, and computer science and philosophy. I’m always looking for the next big trend, where the opportunities are, and where I should spend my time. Then I got into blockchain and cryptocurrency, and I became really interested in the intersection of finance and technology.

Because it's a brand new industry, and in most industries there's always someone who has a lot more experience than you, which makes these industries very rigid. But blockchain is a brand new field, so I really want to get involved. So I started studying, taking relevant courses, and I tried to focus every paper or project on blockchain, forcing myself to learn. I also discussed this topic with others, and then I used this experience and knowledge to make proposals and started working with traditional financial companies.

I would first understand how their company is structured and operates, and then teach them about blockchain and cryptocurrency and how these technologies could impact their business. What was really cool was that I was only a sophomore or junior in college, and I was able to chat with the managing partners of these huge funds for hours every week. I realized that if I took the traditional career route, I would never be able to be in the same room with them. But because I was becoming an expert in an emerging and specialized technical field, they wanted to learn from me, which really motivated me to keep working hard and double down.

Finally, we started building a project. But when using Solidity (Ethereum smart contract language), we encountered a lot of pain points, one of which was that coding was really difficult. Solidity existed before the term real world asset existed and was not designed for this purpose at all.

For those funds, they can only trust that we know what we are doing, because it is difficult for ordinary people to understand Solidity. And for the funds in their network, it is difficult to justify to their limited partners (LPs) why they should put their money into Solidity contracts that are often hacked. That’s when we discovered the Move language. At the time, Aptos and Sui were announcing their massive funding rounds, raising hundreds of millions of dollars each.

I started learning Move and discovered that Facebook created this language to solve the pain points I was experiencing. So I decided to go all in and started developing structured products and financial applications using Move. At the time, I was interning at Bloomberg, and was also developing my own project, building structured products with Move, and studying at school. The burdens were just too much for me to balance.

One day it dawned on me that, as cool as this internship was, even if I got a full-time job there, the salary they were offering wouldn’t be enough for me to move to a city like New York and sustain myself. Even if I could do that, I would still have to get a salary advance before I could apply for an apartment, which is unreasonable. The modern career system is not designed for new entrants. The entire society is based on the Matthew effect, with money constantly flowing to the top.

But in cryptocurrency and Web3, you get what you put in, and it’s a one-to-one return. I realized that my interest in cryptocurrencies far outweighed my traditional career. If that’s the case, why am I staying at this internship instead of spending my time working on crypto? So I decided to quit my internship. On the same day, I was still thinking, if I don’t want this internship or this job, then why am I going to school? So I dropped out of school on the same day, quit my internship and dropped out of school, and then devoted myself to developing in the Move language.

NEO: Well, that sounds like the story of most people who don’t have a rich background, seeking financial freedom. When was your first exposure to blockchain? 2019?

Cooper: I first heard about blockchain when CryptoKitties came out, probably in 2016 or 2017. But I will really start to delve into it in 2021.

NEO: What was the situation at that time? Are NFTs popular?

Cooper: At that time, I was not really involved in NFTs. I just traded tokens on Coinbase and started participating from that perspective.

Movement upgrades Ethereum to increase real-world impact

NEO: Okay, so let’s talk about Movement. Bitcoin's white paper is considered to be the most concise white paper. Can you describe Movement in a few simple points?

Cooper: The Move language is faster and safer than Solidity. Movement applies the Move language directly to Layer 2, so we have a significant differentiation.

NEO: Is it Ethereum’s scaling solution? So it's a bridge between Move and Solidity?

Coopere: I would say we are upgrading Ethereum. Ethereum is a meta network, and we apply Move directly to it. While there are bridges because you need to bridge from Ethereum to our network, compared to Layer 1 blockchains like Aptos and Sui, they compete directly with Ethereum, Solana, and. As a Layer 2, we are fully consistent with Ethereum, so we can attract users without friction. And introduce liquidity from Ethereum to the Move contract without competing with it.

NEO: But I think this is a good question because last year I heard someone say that Movement is Layer 2, but then said it is not Layer 2. The white paper looks more like a sidechain for Ethereum. So what is this?

Cooper: That’s a great question. We are constantly upgrading and improving our architecture. I think we have something new brewing that might create a new category. So we are constantly improving the architecture and making progress.

NEO: Ethereum is often referred to as the “world computer” or “infinite garden”. What is your imagination or vision for Movement?

Cooper: My vision is to have real-world impact. I think Ethereum has enabled a lot of great things and opened the door to a lot of new use cases. Solidity is like magic, it has both good and bad aspects. The good thing is that it opens up new possibilities for smart contracts and takes us into the future. But now we’ve reached a point where Solidity is a thing of the past and it’s actually holding the industry back. Ethereum has created a lot of value, demonstrated what is possible, and is the foundation for our industry to where it is today.

But I think thinking too big and abstractly is actually holding the web back. Because despite visions of “infinite gardens” and “world computers,” what does that mean in reality? I think this is holding back Ethereum adoption and also holding back ETH price growth because it doesn't affect you specifically. So when I say we want to be a chain that has real-world impact, we are focused on how to create a better user experience for everyone around the world.

For example, our Parthenon system tracks participation and we reward community members for participating in the network, which allows people to truly feel part of it and continually be rewarded for their active actions on-chain. Another way we're seeing real-world impact is that we had a lot of people receive six-figure rewards in the Move airdrop, worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, and even more people receive five-figure airdrops.

This makes a lot of sense. People around the world, like our community member Passel, who worked kilometers underground in a Ukrainian mine, are now able to improve the quality of life for his family. Some Move users buy cars for their parents and houses for their families. This is the impact in the real world. The second area is where we bring large financial institutions onto our network. These products are typically only available to a very small number of ultra-high net worth individuals and are not even accessible to the general American population, let alone the rest of the world.

But I believe that cryptocurrencies represent the revival and democratization of the American dream. My vision is to bring these high-quality financial products to Movement and then democratize them to users in emerging markets and emerging economies around the world, giving them access not only to U.S. dollars but also to the best financial products.

Cornucopia liquidity will be launched once the external partner fixes the problem

NEO: Okay, this is a bit of a spicy question. There are already hundreds of public chains, and we obviously don’t need so many Layer 1 or Layer 2. So what do you think are the requirements for an ecosystem to be sustainable? I asked Rushi this question before and his answer was community. But I think the real demand requires a breakthrough, not just faster or safer. Do you agree?

Cooper: I think 99% of Layer 2 is pretty much the same, just 10% faster each, with a new marketing gimmick, but no real differentiation. The significant differentiation of Movement is that we use the Move language, which is the next-generation improvement of Solidity, built by Facebook's best engineers, solving the pain points of the language and creating more scalable blockchain development. So we do have substantial differentiation.

NEO: Let’s talk about the security of the Move language. I know Sui and Aptos also use the Move language, and Movement seems to be more similar to the language version originally created by Facebook.

Cooper: Yes, Move is designed for real-world assets and security. The way the Move contract works is by breaking everything down into modules, with each module defining its functionality, who has access, and where assets can flow. This way you can hard code security. Take the Ethereum vault hack as an example, someone broke into the vault and withdrew all the funds. But with Move, even if you have access to the vault wallet, you cannot withdraw it to a random different wallet, you can only move the assets to a pre-set place.

This greatly improves security, and the coding is also more intuitive, easier to learn and build. Because of these security mechanisms and ease of readability, audits are cheaper and faster. If we were still college students and wanted to develop applications using Solidity, it would take too long and have too many vulnerabilities. If the app had any success, it would probably be hacked within a month. But with Move, it is easier for college students to try development and reach the security threshold, and as long as they don't mess up the basic coding, there will be far fewer vulnerabilities.

From an auditing perspective, Solidity audits are long and expensive because you probably need a PhD to understand all the vulnerabilities. But Move's audit costs are significantly reduced. If you’re a student or first-time developer, it’s easier to get audited and secure once you’ve found product-market fit.

NEO: So if a multi-billion dollar case like Bybit happens on Move, can it be avoided?

Cooper: As far as I know, the Bybit hack occurred when a message was passed through the multi-signature that looked like a normal transaction, but actually hid a code that gave the hacker unauthorized access. I think this is more of a UI issue than a smart contract bug. So I don't think this is a Solidity or Move problem. One interesting thing about the Move language is that there is formal verification, which, like the logic process, can tell you if there is a problem when running the code in real time.

NEO: Okay, let’s talk about Movement. The Movement mainnet was recently launched, but many projects and liquidity are not yet fully ready. What stage are we in now?

Cooper: Yes, for the network launch, our current priority is bridging Cornucopia TVL to applications. None of these TVLs will be idle, and all will be used for staking, liquidity pools or lending, providing a solid foundation for launching DeFi. Ultimately we will provide incentives for people to use the chain, deposit Move, and use the application. But we are currently experiencing some issues with external partners bridging Cornucopia TVL.

NEO: When will the liquidity for pre-deposit be ready? You said soon?

Cooper: Yes, our partners are working on it and will fix it soon.

Movement Corporate Spirit: Pursuit of Perfection and Ecological Sharing

NEO: Back to the part about Movement Labs, for young people without any background, new startups need a breakthrough. How did you and Cooper find the breakthrough for entrepreneurship?

Cooper: We are both exploring in Web3 and are attracted to Move because we believe that the Move language has a great chance to become the standard for smart contract development. We want to be among the first to use it.

NEO: For young teams, they have unlimited imagination and energy to put their ideas into practice. But the most important thing may be survival. What major challenges did Movement encounter in the early days? How did you survive?

Cooper: The biggest challenge was that we started in a bear market, when the industry had little confidence in the Move language. How can we, college dropouts, compete with giants like Facebook? We work really hard and take every opportunity to prove ourselves. Once we needed to write a 42-page document in three days, including a white paper, ecosystem development plan, market strategy, etc. We had dropped out of school, but our friends got us into full-force mode in the library. It was harder than any class assignment, but we accepted the challenge and completed it.

As a young person, no one has reason to believe in you. You have to prove yourself, work harder, and prove to the industry that you are worthy of being recognized.

NEO: Movement is still very young. Can you talk about your company culture?

Cooper: Absolutely. Our culture has several characteristics: First, we always pursue 100%. For example, for papers, we do not accept 90% or 95%. Even if we have to rewrite or start from scratch, as long as we believe we can do better, we will do it. We also work very hard and put our heart and soul into it. I barely leave the house, I just work, but it’s fulfilling because we’re doing great things. Combined with a 100% drive and 24/7 effort, we can go a long way in a short time.

This is why Movement has been able to accomplish so much in a short period of time. We also look for these traits when we recruit, looking for people who are willing to commit and strive for 100%. If we discover a week before the deadline that we can do better, we excitedly start over because it gets us closer to perfection. This mentality enables our team to do great things.

Another core philosophy is that our success comes from helping others succeed. Our path to success is to create opportunities for others and help them first. This is my personal belief and also the standard we follow when recruiting. The best way to create wealth for yourself is to create wealth for others. If you can create wealth and opportunity for others, that will come back to you. So every step of the way we are thinking about how to make developers, communities, and ecosystems prosper. We believe that this way people will stay, more people will join, and create a network effect.

This is the fourth key to how we think and operate, the network effect. We don’t want to do things with a single purpose, but rather have things connect and elevate each other. For example, Cornucopia not only allows people to access the network and applications, but also earns extremely high APY and rewards from each application, provides liquidity to the network, and improves the trading experience. Our Parthenon program rewards the community and makes people feel recognized, just like showcasing rare items in the game.

Move airdrops not only stimulate the on-chain economy, but also allow you to be recognized as a valued user in each application. For new applications, distributing tokens to users who we airdrop is a great way to acquire users. This can create a wealth flywheel effect for the community, allowing the best people to obtain the most funds and become an infinite game of value creation.

What does crypto czar David Sacks talk about at dinner parties?

NEO: You have recently been interviewed by traditional media such as Bloomberg and Yahoo Finance. What was it like for someone so young to have that exposure?

Cooper: Very cool. Even cooler is getting a message from someone you know saying “You’re on the news.” It means a lot to me that they value my opinion. When communicating with them, you have to be very matter-of-fact and keep your sentences short. I am more of a philosophical thinker who enjoys conversations and divergent ideas, but they require rules to be followed, facts to be stated quickly, personal opinions not to be allowed, and everything to be verified. It’s a very different approach, but it’s cool to be a thought leader in the industry.

NEO: Rushi was invited to the dinner of crypto czar David Sacks. Can you share the alpha of the party?

Cooper: The United States has a great interest in the global dominance of the dollar. The United States now competes with many countries for partner status in emerging countries, such as Vietnam. We believe that by bringing large U.S. financial institutions onto the Move language and chain, we can more easily bring people from emerging economies onto the chain and the U.S. economy. This is a huge contribution to the country, which is why the government recognizes it, such as World Liberty's purchase of Move.

We are also focused on bringing American companies back to the U.S. Everyone is afraid of legislation, but getting players back to the U.S. and aligned with government interests is our goal. This has a positive impact on the crypto industry.

The market cares more about efficiency than decentralization

NEO: After the launch of the Bitcoin ETF and even Trump's establishment of Bitcoin asset reserves, decentralization has once again become the focus of discussion. Movement is also seen as a project that is closer to the government. How do you view the art of balancing decentralization and government adoption? Where do you think it fits best on this spectrum, and what role does Movement play in it?

Cooper: A couple of thoughts. First of all, decentralization of tokens is the most important. Some projects have twice as many tokens staked as there are in circulation, which means that investors and teams are dumping on users and the community. I think as users and traders we need to be wary of these exploitative practices, many chains extract value from users in shameful ways. Our airdrops are the best we’ve ever seen on the testnet, truly recognizing community members and giving them significant funding. The team and investors cannot stake, your tokens are yours and cannot be diluted or squeezed.

Second, the market cares more about efficiency than decentralization. Solana was criticized early on for being too centralized, but looking at where it is now, it’s a giant. Even if it crashes, people don't care because the performance is good and there is a lot of activity. In contrast, Ethereum emphasizes decentralization, but this has resulted in no clear substantive impact and worse performance. Our collaboration with the government is the most bullish thing, indicating that we have a 5-10 year long-term plan that will benefit the network, holders, application developers and participants.

Opposing the government will not lead to positive results. We will deliver results for those who believe in us in a truly decentralized way. Look at the token distribution, look at the holders, investors and teams cannot stake, your tokens will not be diluted, this is decentralization.

Movement continues to expand into Taiwan and plans to establish a regional center

NEO: Regarding Movement’s roadmap, will there be more cooperation with Taiwan in the future? We know that Movement previously had research collaboration with Tsinghua University in Taiwan.

Cooper: I am very optimistic about Taiwan because there is a strong developer community here. Communities like Boba DAO, GM Labs, and Sats have gathered many Solana developers who are learning Rust and developing with Rust, and many people are developing Move in Sui. I think the next stage is to develop Move in Movement. We will invest a lot of resources. This is the first stop of my trip to Asia and the place where I will stay the longest. I will work closely with partners such as Boba DAO and the Route-X team, and also cooperate with many great media.

Our goal is to establish regional centers where developers, communities, traders, venture capitalists and other industry participants can gather and piece together the puzzle. Everyone contributes, and everyone benefits from collaboration. For example, a novice developer can meet someone who hires you for a project, or learn Move. If you are a trader, you may come across projects that you can help promote. My vision is to unite all people in Taiwan into one cohesive group that benefits each other.